The Organisation Forums

Note that all information below is taken from canon sources unless otherwise stated.

Also note that as i have backed up my points here with something it is expected of everyone who decides to participate herin that they back up what they say as opposed to making baseless claims.

Also note that this is a militaristic comparison between the Galkactic Empire in Star Wars and any well known race in ST thatis not effectively a god (see Q) The Borg count but these numbers are magnitudes beyond anything even they could withstand. For my points here I use the Federation in my examples because they are the most well quantified power in ST and seem to represent an average of the power of species in ST.

Speed

Star Wars STL: SW Ships were shown at the battle of Yavin to have acceleration in excess of 17 000 m/s/s. Various other sources exceed this acceleration.

Star Wars FTL: Dividing range of voyage by time of voyage via hyperspace gives us a range of 400 000C to 50 000 000C

Star Trek STL: Concrete numbers on ST STL travel is hard to come by although a non cannon source did state a max impulse speed of 0.75C, although this statement is useless in itself without acceleration.

Star Trek FTL: Geordi said that the Enterprise could travel about 2.7 million light years in 3 centuries or at 9000C(Maximum warp of vessel)

Weapons

Star Trek Weaponry:

Power: A blast of 400GW Blast took out the shields of the enterprise, a second damaged the hull and a third disabled the weapons, from this info I would put federation weapons in a range between 100-1200GW.

Range: Federation weaponry seems to vary in ranges of 10 000-300 000k

Star Wars weaponry:

Power: Ranging from Kilotons in fighter based laser to hundreds of thousands of Gigatons in Capital ships and fighter torpedoes. (One such capital ship blast would destroy any federation vessel)

Range: Star Wars “lasers” have a range of several light hours although in real combat against a mobile target a much closer range would be needed. Projectiles such as missiles and torpedoes have a range of many kilometers but are usually shot from closer since jamming is employed constantly.

Shields

Star Wars shields: 6x10²³ watts for a small capital ship

Star Trek Shields: As stated above 400 GW is sufficient to penetrate ST vessel shields. (Note that the Slave 1, a one man ship in SW has itts low end weapons rated at 600 GW)

Sensors
ST sensors appear to have a greater range although SW sensors are faster and more accurate. SW has very extensive sensor jamming technology.

communications

Star Wars: Individual ships have a range of 100 LY for communication and with the holonet can communicate in real time across the galaxy.

Star Trek: Subspace transceivers have a range of 22 LY and have severe signal lag in some instances while it appears to be RT in others, I am guessing this is a power or range issue.

And so SW clearly won every technical contest but sensors which was more of a tie.

That's good stuff.

i'm suprized mike hasn't said anything yet

Well, I don't know enough about Star Wars tech to really say anything other than I know that Star Wars fighters could and would get owned against Trek fighters, unless we're talking about that one with the three wings... I forget what it's called but I know that it has shields so it might be a fair game there.

If a fighter or even a capital ship aimed a torpedo at the Death Star I's ventillation shaft it is possible that it could have be destroyed; provided that the shields are down.

---
Size: 2.1 x .76 x .45 m
Dry Mass: 186.7 kg
Range Limit: 15 km - 4 050 000 km (from starships at warp)
Warp Speed: 110% of warp factor of firing ship
Sublight Speed: up to a 75% higher velocity (maximum velocity = initial velocity + .75 × initial velocity/ c {or Vmax = Vi + .75 Vi/c)
Warhead: 1.5 kg matter/antimatter (avg.)
Developed: 2262
Operational Since: 2262 (2152 if you go by Enterprise logic - which makes no sense)
---

There are the specs for a ST torpedo for anyone who cares to look at them.

Let's get this straight: I am not saying ST could beat SW overall.

Well, I don't know enough about Star Wars tech to really say anything other than I know that Star Wars fighters could and would get owned against Trek fighters, unless we're talking about that one with the three wings... I forget what it's called but I know that it has shields so it might be a fair game there.

Most Star Wars fighters are shielded, especially in the "modern" Empire. It is pretty much only TIEs that remain unshielded. Star Wars fighters have greater weaponry and manerverability and greatly outnumber Star Trek fighters even if you inculde shuttles.

If a fighter or even a capital ship aimed a torpedo at the Death Star I's ventillation shaft it is possible that it could have be destroyed; provided that the shields are down.
Any ST fighter not making the trench run would be shot down and any ST capital ship would be shot down period. Any glancing Turbolaser blow would destroy a ST fighter and you forget that the Federation would not have the Technical readouts to find the shaft in the first place.

Oh and BTW unless those figures on the fighter are from the show they are useless, since they are non canon, so where did you get that information exactly?

This argument is pointless only a dumbass would say Star Trek would win. I don't mean to call anyone a dumbass, but its soo true!

Well, in my opinion, SW is better. I find it's more, well, I just like it better than ST. But, others may like ST more than SW. But, I'm 100% with Icmoigigan on this one.

I don't mean to be blunt here, but Star Wars is much more prominent and a much better story than Star Trek anyday. I find Star Trek is a poor alternative to Star Wars with as much story depth as a car radiator's life, no offence. I may have only watched some of the older episodes, and some of the newer episodes, but it is simply impossible to get into and fairly contradictive to science in some regards, not mentioning the fact that the aliens look like shit.

Over and out, Alex.
(Sorry, sorry, sorry I'm not posting the RP, but I have VERY limited time thanks to overloading of homework.)

William, you have it wrong. That is not the specs for a ST fighter. Those were the specs for a ST torpedo. And, it would be pretty easy to find the ventillation shaft for ST ships. Their sensors are much more effiecient and all they would have to do is run a sensor sweep of the DS for ventillating gases and launch a photon torpedo or two into the shaft.

A fighter in ST would not have to even take the trench; they could just fly in from above it and fire from a few kilometres. Even a ST capital ship could do that, if they used one of the strategies I mentioned above.

Also, it takes some time for the DS to charge up its main canon, plus aiming accurately. We all know how maneuverable ST ships are; look at an Intrepid class or Defiant. They could drop out of warp in front of the DS, run the scan, target the shaft, warp back out of there once the scan was complete. Then warp to the position where they found the shaft, target and fire.

If that plan were ruled out, they could use the Picard Maneuver that was adopted by Starfleet for fighting the Borg. In case you don't know what that is head to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picard_maneuver or http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.ph ... d_Maneuver .

That could also be done until the shaft was located.

I got those specs from Justin. I don't know where he got them, but I asked him for accurate and official specs.



Alexius... you must be stupid. If you think for a second that ST is bad compared to science then I guess you don't know a damned thing about SW science; which is just as bad, if not worse in some cases. I personally am a huge ST fan and I don't find that it is a poor alternative to SW at all; considering that there are 10 movies, over 700 episodes, and tons of books.

Maybe for you it is impossible to get into, but you aren't everyone so don't state it as a generalizing fact. The only decent story in SW is the politics that lead to the empire, to me anyway. Although, I do find SW is really cool, I just don't like the Force.

Heh, there's some great science, Alexius - the Force.

ALEXIUS



Man you annoy me sometimes.

You know, I'm not even going to touch this one due to the utter pointlessness of this battle. I believe what Icmoigigan stated was that photon torpedos would not fit into the Death Star's ventilation shaft, and the Death Star 2 did not even have that issue. In addition, I highly doubt that the double-image trick would work on any sensors; if the Death Star was watching the ship only visually, it could work, but that is highly unlikely.

I also believe the DS has more than one weapon, plus a fleet.

Oh, and about your Star Trek science, even from my point of view (I like Voyager, and I like Star Wars movies, no obsession or "fanboyness"), Star Trek's science is fucked up. Star Wars actually has a book titled "The Science of Star Wars" that backs up many of the things you see in the movies with hard science.

Oh, and Alexius was stating his opinion. You can tell that because he said "I find" and he didn't state any facts. Opinions are allowed, Schmidt, and I happen to agree with him. I guess I'm stupid, then... and according to that emoticon, you agree with him.

As for the Force, there is no science behind that, of course... but it is damn cool, albeit a rip-off of magic. Stop the arcanophobia, arcanophobe.

Damn it, I said I wasn't going to get involved... I guess it's a little late for that now. I hate this so much. So much stupidity. So much pointless debate. So much incomprehensible rambling.

He said that not knowing the proper specs of a photon torpedo. The hole is 1mx1m. A torpedo can fit in that as it's only 0.76m wide. Yeah, I agree, Geoff. Too pointless to continue. I'm not saying that ST could beat SW overall. I never said that, and never thought that. I'm just saying that in certain instances it could beat SW.

Btw, the fleet isn't always around the DS. Remember the DS 2 only had that fleet because they knew that a battle was coming. The DS1 only had a few TIEs around.

I doubt anything would get close enough.

Also, I have one question: Can photon torpedos move so that they go straight down the shaft widthwise? Because if it hit lengthwise, it wouldn't work...

Oh, and a random "rofl": Heh.

Yes, photon torpedoes always fire width wise, that is how they are launched and that is how they travel.

That is hilarious. Look up how many shuttles were destroyed as well; it doesn't make sense.

Schmidt. Please get off my case. Everytime I state an opinion you seem to make up some random incoherent sense that doesn't even touch fact. I don't mean to be flaming, but I hate a jackass who does that to someone who is only trying to state an opinion. Yes, I'm stupid. Sure, I'm annoying you even though I spoke generally.

Those were the specs for a ST torpedo. And, it would be pretty easy to find the ventillation shaft for ST ships. Their sensors are much more effiecient and all they would have to do is run a sensor sweep of the DS for ventillating gases and launch a photon torpedo or two into the shaft.

ST Sensors are not more efficient and have never demonstrated anything but laughable abilities against jamming. They would not find the shaft of a moon sized object under fire and under sensor jamming conditions.

A fighter in ST would not have to even take the trench; they could just fly in from above it and fire from a few kilometres. Even a ST capital ship could do that, if they used one of the strategies I mentioned above.
Any ST ship would be shot and destroyed in a single hit if they made a frontal assault.

Also, it takes some time for the DS to charge up its main canon, plus aiming accurately. We all know how maneuverable ST ships are; look at an Intrepid class or Defiant. They could drop out of warp in front of the DS, run the scan, target the shaft, warp back out of there once the scan was complete. Then warp to the position where they found the shaft, target and fire.
A single hit from any weapon on the Death Star would destroy any ST ship.

If that plan were ruled out, they could use the Picard Maneuver that was adopted by Starfleet for fighting the Borg. In case you don't know what that is head to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picard_maneuver or http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.ph ... d_Maneuver .
That could also be done until the shaft was located.
Jamming. Any ship stopping to try to make scans would be shot.

I got those specs from Justin. I don't know where he got them, but I asked him for accurate and official specs.

Alexius... you must be stupid. If you think for a second that ST is bad compared to science then I guess you don't know a damned thing about SW science; which is just as bad, if not worse in some cases.
You obviously do not know a thing about SW or ST science.

I personally am a huge ST fan and I don't find that it is a poor alternative to SW at all; considering that there are 10 movies, over 700 episodes, and tons of books.
Umm, Quantity has nothing to do with Quality, personally I enjoy most ST(Enterprise and TOS can rot) but stating quantity is not a valid argument at all.

Oh and BTW, I used 1m by 1m because it was an easy number but the following is much more accurate: A Proton Torpedo is no bigger than a soccer ball and one took up most of the shaft width wise and half of it height wise, thus ruining your “Photon Torpedoes would fit” argument.